Carry at Hill AFB.

[jobot]

Is it legally permissible to carry at Hill AFB during the air show?

I am thinking probably not but could someone sight the law?


http://www.ksl.com/?nid=1105&sid=20528802

[Luv10mm]

Don't really need to cite any laws, since they will be using metal detectors and mention on their website that no weapons are allowed including those with CCWs. 3" or shorter knife blades are okay apparently.

http://www.hill.af.mil/warriorsoverthewasatch/overview/index.asp

[DMac]

Hill AFB Instruction 31-206 Control of Privately Owned Weapons

Section 1.3 specifically covers CFP:
1.3. State issued “concealed firearm permits” do not authorize individuals to carry concealed
or unconcealed firearms on Hill AFB, the Utah Test and Training Range (UTTR), or the
Little Mountain Test Facility.

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/m ... 31-206.pdf

[Paul]

My wife and I kicked around the idea of taking our boys to the show.

[jobot]

Thanks guys for the very accurate and useful information.

[divegeek]

This has been discussed many times here. The upshot is that it's not illegal for non-military people to carry on Hill Air Force Base as long as you stay out of any buildings. However, if you get caught you will be ejected, and you might be banned. Likely the security police will make your day unpleasant for a while, too.

[roseblood]

Hill AFB Instruction 31-206 Control of Privately Owned Weapons

Section 1.3 specifically covers CFP:
1.3. State issued “concealed firearm permits” do not authorize individuals to carry concealed
or unconcealed firearms on Hill AFB, the Utah Test and Training Range (UTTR), or the
Little Mountain Test Facility.

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/m ... 31-206.pdf

Divegeek has it right... and this Instruction only applies to military personnel.

[DMac]

Hill AFB Instruction 31-206 Control of Privately Owned Weapons

Section 1.3 specifically covers CFP:
1.3. State issued “concealed firearm permits” do not authorize individuals to carry concealed
or unconcealed firearms on Hill AFB, the Utah Test and Training Range (UTTR), or the
Little Mountain Test Facility.

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/m ... 31-206.pdf

Divegeek has it right... and this Instruction only applies to military personnel.

Not to get into an argument but...
1.2. This Hill AFB Instruction provides the required on-station guidance governing the use and control of POWs on this installation. Prohibitions and procedures regarding firearms and dangerous weapons apply to civilian and military workers, members residing on base, visitors, contractors, subcontractors, etc.

Hill is a federal installation and I doubt very much that you would not be charged under a lot of different areas of federal law if caught.

[Sam Fidler]

[quote="DMAc1326"Not to get into an argument but...
1.2. This Hill AFB Instruction provides the required on-station guidance governing the use and control of POWs on this installation. Prohibitions and procedures regarding firearms and dangerous weapons apply to civilian and military workers, members residing on base, visitors, contractors, subcontractors, etc.

Hill is a federal installation and I doubt very much that you would not be charged under a lot of different areas of federal law if caught.[/quote]
We don't deal in speculation and generalities here. Like Divegeek said, this topic has been discussed many times and nobody had identified any local or federal law that prohibits someone not subject to UCMJ from carrying a weapon on federal property outside of a federal building. In the U.S. you cannot be charged for a crime based on, "everybody knows that..." You must be cited for the violation of an identifiable code or ordinance. Keep in mind that the order listed is from the Post Commander and, according to the Constitution, the military has no jurisdiction over U.S. Citizens on domestic soil. Although, nothing prevents them from trespassing you and making your day a miserable experience while they take their time figuring out that they have nothing to pin you with.

[DMac]

18 U.S.C. § 930 does specify building.

[UtahJarhead]

18 U.S.C. § 930 does specify building.

And that's the crux of what divegeek was saying. It does NOT matter what some base Commander has said. He's probably a 1 or 2 star General and is in full authority over all people who are bound by the Uniform Code of Military Justice with a rank lower than he that work on the base and not assigned to a higher ranking official. If you do not follow the UCMJ because you are a civilian, than his orders mean nothing.

Buildings that are posted are off limits.

[TIinSLC]

Without citing a rule or law I would say No you can not legally carry at the air show. If you can't carry at the post office then you prob can't carry on a military base.

[DiscoLives4ever]

Without citing a rule or law I would say No you can not legally carry at the air show. If you can't carry at the post office then you prob can't carry on a military base.

The difference is that a post office is a Federal building, whereas the base is mostly Federal land with buildings on it.

[UtahJarhead]

The post office is specifically provided its own laws. It is *NOT* illegal to carry at the air show, even if it's against base rules. It may be illegal to carry inside of any of the buildings, however

[Car Knocker]

It's just my opinion, of course, but it seems to me that this section of code may possibly be construed to sanction a regulation prohibiting the possession of firearms by civilians on military property and assess a penalty for violation of the regulation:

50 U.S.C. § 797 : US Code - Section 797: Penalty for violation of security regulations and orders
(a) Misdemeanor violation of defense property security regulations
(1) Misdemeanor
Whoever willfully violates any defense property security
regulation shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more
than one year, or both.
(2) Defense property security regulation described
For purposes of paragraph (1), a defense property security
regulation is a property security regulation that, pursuant to
lawful authority -
(A) shall be or has been promulgated or approved by the
Secretary of Defense (or by a military commander designated by
the Secretary of Defense or by a military officer, or a
civilian officer or employee of the Department of Defense,
holding a senior Department of Defense director position
designated by the Secretary of Defense) for the protection or
security of Department of Defense property; or
(B) shall be or has been promulgated or approved by the
Administrator of the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration for the protection or security of NASA property.
(3) Property security regulation described
For purposes of paragraph (2), a property security regulation,
with respect to any property, is a regulation -
(A) relating to fire hazards, fire protection, lighting,
machinery, guard service, disrepair, disuse, or other
unsatisfactory conditions on such property, or the ingress
thereto or egress or removal of persons therefrom; or
(B) otherwise providing for safeguarding such property
against destruction, loss, or injury by accident or by enemy
action, sabotage, or other subversive actions.
(4) Definitions
In this subsection:
(A) Department of Defense property
The term "Department of Defense property" means covered
property subject to the jurisdiction, administration, or in the
custody of the Department of Defense, any Department or agency
of which that Department consists, or any officer or employee
of that Department or agency.
(B) NASA property
The term "NASA property" means covered property subject to
the jurisdiction, administration, or in the custody of the
National Aeronautics and Space Administration or any officer or
employee thereof.
(C) Covered property
The term "covered property" means aircraft, airports, airport
facilities, vessels, harbors, ports, piers, water-front
facilities, bases, forts, posts, laboratories, stations,
vehicles, equipment, explosives, or other property or places.
(D) Regulation as including order
The term "regulation" includes an order.
(b) Posting
Any regulation or order covered by subsection (a) of this section
shall be posted in conspicuous and appropriate places.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/50/23/I/797