open carry at high school dinner

[Snurd]

The school is not 'adopting a rule relating to firearms'. It is simply saying that whatever you are doing (it just happens to be OC in this instance) at that particular event may be disruptive.

Even if someone thinks it is disruptive to carry a gun on school grounds, it doesn't mean that the gun should be asked to leave. The law clearly states that those with a CFP are allowed to carry there (public schools anyway). I don't see how someone with a holstered firearm is being disruptive. Now, if they were flailing about with the gun in their hands, that's different. However, I haven't seen that happen at any of our OC dinners or get togethers.

The lame OEO's (Opinion Enforcement Officers) on college campuses try to peg people OCing with the same line of thought as above. They see a gun properly holstered, don't like it, know they can't do anything about it so they tell the OCer they will be charged with disturbing school activities. It is such bull crap. That's basically like a LEO seeing a minority walking the street near dusk and pegging him with something lame, like disturbing the peace, because he doesn't like minorities.

[UtahJarhead]

BTW--I recognize I'm the [auto-filtered] on the forum, and don't have the benefit of background or context on the more seasoned posters. So, certainly don't mean to alienate anyone right out of the gate. I'm quite sure I'll do enough of that later.

Everybody was the [auto-filtered] at one point or another. Chesty Puller started out as a Private!

[gobbly]

It's too bad most of this doesn't apply to the largest school in the state. I find it kinda silly that I can OC almost anything I would like at my nieces kindergarten, but when it comes to carrying around a bunch of college students (almost all of whom are adults), somehow it's unacceptable...

It is NOT unacceptable to the law or to society. I assume you're talking about UofU. If it were illegal, he'd have arrested one of the OCers by now. Mecham up at USU said it was illegal. We OCed in front of him. He didn't have the guts to bat an eye, but he watched us like a hawk. He stood outside of the door staring at us for the entire talk that we were there for. Just ask the fellas below!

Paul
Roccoracer
Utah_Patriot
dewittdj
a few others whose names I can't quite remember anymore.

University of Utah does not allow open carry. They also convinced a judge to uphold the policy, causing a huge issue between the state legislature and the administration at the UofU. I have a deep respect for what people were able to accomplish at USU, but this same thing hasn't happened at the UofU. If I were to open carry on campus I would be asked to conceal. If I refused, I would be held on charges of disturbing the peace and interfering with the functioning of a school. This comes from the leak of the internal UofU police procedures manual.

Here is just one of hundreds of articles written on the subject at the time:
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_st ... N_l3Q.cspx

This was part of the motivation behind the recent law to prevent legal gun owners from being charged with unrelated crimes.

I am anxiously waiting for someone willing to test case this (I can almost guarantee the NRA would pay for it), but till then, the consequences for open carrying at the UofU are clear, either you take the charges, or become a test case.

[UtahJarhead]

University of Utah does not allow open carry. They also convinced a judge to uphold the policy, causing a huge issue between the state legislature and the administration at the UofU. I have a deep respect for what people were able to accomplish at USU, but this same thing hasn't happened at the UofU. If I were to open carry on campus I would be asked to conceal. If I refused, I would be held on charges of disturbing the peace and interfering with the functioning of a school. This comes from the leak of the internal UofU police procedures manual.

Yeah, Utah_Patriot here on the forums is the one that leaked the procedures manual. The instance you are referring to about the issue between the state and administration was cleared up with an official statement from the Attorney General Mark Shurtleff.

They CAN charge you, but the chances of you being found guilty of something is pretty much slim and none. It is currently going to require a test case, but I would gladly OC there if I were closer. Ogden is too far away.

This was part of the motivation behind the recent law to prevent legal gun owners from being charged with unrelated crimes.

which was gutted to mean pretty much nothing, sadly.

I am anxiously waiting for someone willing to test case this (I can almost guarantee the NRA would pay for it)

You have more faith than I on that one. Utah isn't the forefront for firearms rights. They've got bigger fish to fry and we're sitting pretty as far as the rest of the nation is concerned.

but till then, the consequences for open carrying at the UofU are clear, either you take the charges, or become a test case.

*sigh* So very true....

[DaKnife]

I assume you're talking about UofU

Actually I got the idea he was referring to the largest school in the state, the one with the highest full time enrollment, and the only big one that does not fall subject to the Uniform Firearms Law. AKA BYU.

[UtahJarhead]

I assume you're talking about UofU

Actually I got the idea he was referring to the largest school in the state, the one with the highest full time enrollment, and the only big one that does not fall subject to the Uniform Firearms Law. AKA BYU.

Didn't know which is bigger.

[DaKnife]

Neither did I, I had to look it up, I was actually thinking it was UVU (at current growth rates it will be within a couple years). But I did key in on the part about it being too bad the rules didn't apply at the school in question, which regardless of what the admin folks at the state schools want, can only refer to a private school.

[gobbly]

hehe, I was actually surprised that BYU has like 4k more students, but I was thinking public schools and just not writing that

[gobbly]

Neither did I, I had to look it up, I was actually thinking it was UVU (at current growth rates it will be within a couple years). But I did key in on the part about it being too bad the rules didn't apply at the school in question, which regardless of what the admin folks at the state schools want, can only refer to a private school.

Nope, as previously stated, I was talking about the condition of the University of Utah. Though I encourage anyone here who would like to test case this contact an attorney and set yourself up properly to get us our rights back!

If I could afford it, I would, but as a student I am poor, and can't miss class to attend jail

[ckamanao]

So where would this code fit in this circumstance?

76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties. (1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1). (2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.

[kdt1970]

So where would this code fit in this circumstance?

76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties. (1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1). (2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.

76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
(1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
(a) a United States marshal;
(b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
(c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
(d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
(e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
(f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or
(g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:
(i) unloaded; and
(ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.
(2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
(a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
(b) by another state or county.

[kdt1970]

You also neglected to post the entire law:
76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.
(1) As used in this section, "on or about school premises" means:
(a) (i) in a public or private elementary or secondary school; or
(ii) on the grounds of any of those schools;
(b) (i) in a public or private institution of higher education; or
(ii) on the grounds of a public or private institution of higher education; and
(iii) (A) inside the building where a preschool or child care is being held, if the entire building is being used for the operation of the preschool or child care; or
(B) if only a portion of a building is being used to operate a preschool or child care, in that room or rooms where the preschool or child care operation is being held.
(2) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in this section.
(3) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
(b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
(4) This section does not apply if:
(a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;
(b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
(c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
(d) the possession is:
(i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property; or
(ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students.
(5) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.

[gobbly]

This is the issue. I'm not trying to argue the legality, you're preaching to the choir on that one. But the fact is that the U's policy is to arrest, and charge. Till someone successfully challenges that, it's the way it is, regardless of the legality. It's like the guy who got arrested in cottonwood for OCing (disturbing the peace charges), except the U basically got permission before hand. Since then no one has challenged this (at least not that has been made public).

Again, I welcome someone to challenge this and make it safe, but till then you have to assume that if you OC on UofU property, and are reported, you will be asked to conceal, and if you refuse, will be arrested. Their police manual suggests using charges of disturbing the peace and interfering with the functioning of a school.

[Stang777]

It is a public school. I will be attending a dinner at Grantsville High School for my son for getting a 3.5 GPA or higher.

Hi Everyone,

I know I am new to this forum so maybe I should keep my thoughts on this topic to myself, especially since it doesn't really address the question of the OP, but I feel it is important to keep this in mind, so here I go. I hope I am not out of line and don't offend anyone by sharing my thoughts on this.

This thing at the high school, is about students, one of whom is the OP's child, who are being celebrated for doing a remarkable job and, IMHO, nothing should be done that night that could possibly distract from that. If it were my son being honored, I wouldn't want to risk doing anything that could cause a disturbance that could take away from his night and possibly cause him embarrassment and/or problems that could last the rest of his days at that school.

I am all for people excercising their rights to open carry, even in the schools, but since one cannot be certain this would not cause a problem, this event might not be the place to do it. This event is about the achievements of these children, nothing else. It would be really sad for all those kids, and their parents, if anything happened to take away from their moment in the sun.

[Cinhil]

UVU is listed as having the highest registration rate of all Universities in Utah according to the most recent statistics I have read.

Concerning carrying a gun in school; Perhaps the following code could be used in order to "educate" others in the school about gun safety.

Title 53A

State System of Public Education
Chapter 13

Curriculum in the Public Schools
Section 106

Instruction in firearm safety -- Purpose -- School districts to implement volunteer education classes -- Parental consent exception.
53A-13-106. Instruction in firearm safety -- Purpose -- School districts to implement volunteer education classes -- Parental consent exception.
(1) (a) School districts may permit the use of district approved volunteers or school district teachers for instruction of firearm safety education classes for students.
(b) The volunteers or school district teachers instructing the firearm safety education class are encouraged to utilize donated materials prepared by firearms training and education organizations or to develop their own materials within existing budgets.
(2) The purpose of firearm safety education is to:
(a) develop the knowledge, habits, skills, and attitudes necessary for the safe handling of firearms; and
(b) help students avoid firearm injuries.
(3) School districts may offer firearm safety instruction to students in grades kindergarten through four to teach them that in order to avoid injury when they find a firearm they should:
(a) not touch it;
(b) tell an adult about finding the firearm and its location; and
(c) be able to share the instruction provided in Subsections (3)(a) and (b) with any other minors who are with them when they find a firearm.
(4) As used in this chapter, "firearm" means any firearm as defined in Section 76-10-501.
(5) The State Board of Education shall make rules promulgated pursuant to Title 63G, Chapter 3, Utah Administrative Rulemaking Act, for:
(a) use of certified volunteers for instruction of firearm safety education classes in the public schools;
(b) use of public school classrooms or auditoriums for these classes;
(c) school district review of donated materials before their use; and
(d) proof of certification as a firearm safety instructor.
(6) (a) A local school board may require every student in grades kindergarten through six to participate in a firearm safety education class offered within the public schools under this section.
(b) A student may be exempted from participation upon notification to the local school by the student's parent or legal guardian that the parent or legal guardian wants the student exempted from the class in its entirety or any portion specified.
(7) If a student is exempted under Subsection (6), the school may provide other activities during the period of time in which the student would otherwise be participating in the program.
(8) The school districts may permit the Division of Wildlife Resources, local law enforcement agencies, peace officers as defined in Title 53, Chapter 13, Peace Officer Classifications, certified instructors, certified hunter education instructors, and other certified firearms safety instructors, as provided by rules adopted under Subsection (5)(a) to teach the firearm safety education class on a voluntary basis.
(9) The school district is encouraged to maximize the use of existing firearm safety educational materials which are available at minimal or no cost and the use of certified volunteer instructors.
(10) The school district may review the class on a regular basis for its effectiveness.

Amended by Chapter 382, 2008 General Session
Download Code Section Zipped WordPerfect 53A13_010600.ZIP 3,283 Bytes

Now it could certainly be called a "stretch" however, it could be given a try, who knows how it may turn out?