380 acp

[westcoastmountainman]

Hey all, New post for me here(aside from the Mandated post).

I would like to know what you all carry here in Utah for the 380 acp,I carry the Makarov IJ70-17a(the 380cp version). It has a fixed 3.84" barrel.

[B Cart]

I don't carry a .380 as a primary gun very often, but I do carry one as a BUG quite often. I carry the Sig P238, usually in a pocket or ankle holster. For a pocket pistol sized .380, I think the P238 is hard to beat

[Tenuki]

I have a question about the .380 as well: WHY? Why do they make the .380? why is it preferable to a 9mm? I know there are a lot of guns made in this caliber, and they are loved as pocket pistols, but it just seems to me that the amount of space saved by using a .380 is negligible. for the price of ammo and the decreased performance, it doesn't seem to make sense to me. Why do gun makers favor the .380?

Sorry for the rant - didn't mean to pull this completely off topic - but it is a question I have been pondering for quite some time.

[Gunlvr]

I have a question about the .380 as well: WHY? Why do they make the .380? why is it preferable to a 9mm? I know there are a lot of guns made in this caliber, and they are loved as pocket pistols, but it just seems to me that the amount of space saved by using a .380 is negligible. for the price of ammo and the decreased performance, it doesn't seem to make sense to me. Why do gun makers favor the .380?

Sorry for the rant - didn't mean to pull this completely off topic - but it is a question I have been pondering for quite some time.

Many Euopean countries outlaw guns in military calibers. This is why the 9mm short (.380) and 9x18 are popular over there.

[Luv10mm]

I have a question about the .380 as well: WHY? Why do they make the .380? why is it preferable to a 9mm? I know there are a lot of guns made in this caliber, and they are loved as pocket pistols, but it just seems to me that the amount of space saved by using a .380 is negligible. for the price of ammo and the decreased performance, it doesn't seem to make sense to me. Why do gun makers favor the .380?

A big benefit of using the 380 in small pistols over the 9mm is the recoil reduction. Recoil in a pocket pistol can be quite stout in 9mm. Considering that you can approach 500 ft/lbs in a full-size pistol (4-5" barrel), that still translates to some decent energy in a short-barreled pistol. In contrast, the 380 Auto is capable of maybe 250-300 ft/lbs if you really push it. More like 200-250 realistically.

If you reload you can load the 9mm down to 380 levels, but since many shooters don't reload, manufacturers provide pistols that they think customers want and that will provide them with a decent profit.

Another reason to make a pocket pistol in 380 is that it doesn't need to be built as strong as a 9mm version. The 380 works at much lower pressures, so the gun can be weaker. This translates to lower manufacturing costs which can either lead to bigger profits for companies, or lower prices for consumers.

I'm not a big 380 guy, but the Ruger LCP seems pretty popular. And more companies keep coming out with different models. It's hard to keep up.

[Snowman]

with the two above. same issue in Mexico. For those down tere who try to have some sembalence of legality with thei rirearms, they own .380 acp. .38 super, and odbal revolver calibers too. Now, in 95% of the country, even those are illegal. They are just leftovers from when they were still legal, and only military/LEO calibers were banned. If you check out glocks website, you can see they make a subcompact, and a compact .380 acp. The 24 and 25, I think. Never seen one.

Not that it's hard to get weapon down there. I've had a police officer offer to sell me a full auto AK47 / Cuerno de chivo. He also mentioned if I didn't like those, he could get me just about anything I could want... I wish we had that kind of aviliblity here!

[My Trigger Guard]

I have a question about the .380 as well: WHY? Why do they make the .380? why is it preferable to a 9mm? I know there are a lot of guns made in this caliber, and they are loved as pocket pistols, but it just seems to me that the amount of space saved by using a .380 is negligible. for the price of ammo and the decreased performance, it doesn't seem to make sense to me. Why do gun makers favor the .380?

Sorry for the rant - didn't mean to pull this completely off topic - but it is a question I have been pondering for quite some time.

Oh your going to start WWIII of caliber wars... But okay I will give you the skinny, yes in europe they are huge, and are also becoming quite popular in america. Why becuase of the pocket carry so comfortable and easy to carry and conceal, I carry one at all times and love it!!!. However some of your statements about the calibers are off somewhat.

First 380 auto ammo is only more expensive then the 9mm in the stores, if your reloading the 380 auto is cheaper to reload then the 9mm.
Secondly the decrease in performance you talk about isn't exactly true and it really depends about how you want to go about measuring this performance. I can reload my 380 auto bullets to have the same FPS as my 9mm or even more if I want to not have a 9mm hot load and have a 380 auto hot load. Then its going to come down to bullet weight which the auto is lighter depending but if moving fast kind of makes up for that.

Its sort of like saying the 38 special is better then a 9mm, it really all depends on the firearm that shooting it and the load work up. The 380, the 9mm, 38 special and 357 magnum are all very very similiar. Its possible to make load work ups for each that would behave the same. Its also possible to make them ballistically quite different.

So to just blantantly state that 380 is inferior to a 9mm is not exactly accurate. On average with just stock off the shelf ammo I would say its a little less powerfull but not enough to really say its there is a real difference.

Just my test results and opionon so take it as you will, if a caliber war breaks out I will just bow out now before getting dragged into a long debate on a forum.

[B Cart]

I think one of the biggest reasons some people carry a .380, is because it's something they will ACTUALLY CARRY. I know a lot of people who don't like to carry a large pistol, so they wouldn't carry at all if it weren't for the size and ease of carrying a small pocket pistol. To them I say good on you!

Is the .380 caliber ideal? Not compared to better rounds like +P 9mm, .40, and .45 etc. But is it better than not carrying a gun at all? HECK YA! I'd take a .380 over a knife or my bare hands any day.

And to be completely honest, none of the "carry pistol" rounds are very good man stoppers anyway. It all comes down to shot placement, and you can kill someone with a .22 if you have good shot placement. At the end of the day, a .380 is plenty capable of stopping a human threat with good hits.

[bltdonahue]

I have a question about the .380 as well: WHY? Why do they make the .380? why is it preferable to a 9mm? I know there are a lot of guns made in this caliber, and they are loved as pocket pistols, but it just seems to me that the amount of space saved by using a .380 is negligible. for the price of ammo and the decreased performance, it doesn't seem to make sense to me. Why do gun makers favor the .380?

Sorry for the rant - didn't mean to pull this completely off topic - but it is a question I have been pondering for quite some time.

The .380 was created to allow a low-pressure round to enable smaller pistol designs (i.e. less steel needed on the barrel and chamber) and pistols that could operate on direct blow-back instead of some sort of delayed unlocking mechanism. Direct blow-back also helps translate to smaller, cheaper pistols.

Lately, manufacturers have gotten pretty good and making “full-power” pistols (9mm, .40) that are nearly as small as traditional pocket-pistols (.380 or .32)

However, such pistols (i.e. Ruger LC9), are still heavier, beefier and more expensive than a .380 (i.e. Ruger LCP). They’re just less heavy, less beefy and less expensive that traditional small “full-power” pistols.

[UnderratedF00l]

And the caliber war rages on.

If we disregard caliber completely, can anyone name a gun that weighs less than 16 ounces; is comfortable to shoot (which means I can shoot it very well), and carries at least 7 rounds that will expand to over half an inch with a muzzle velocity of at least 950 fps?

That's why .380 firearms are good. The size and weight ratio combined with decent (but not great) ballistics is why they're popular for concealed carry. Is a 9mm better? Of course it is. So are .40, .45, and .357. That's not really the point though, is it?

Oh, and I carry a Sig P238 every day. Love the thing.

[FrankenHollow]

... If you check out glocks website, you can see they make a subcompact, and a compact .380 acp. The 24 and 25, I think. Never seen one.

That's because they don't make enough import "points", according to the ATF. Very few made it into the country when the first Glock .380s were introduced. Since then, they have become highly-coveted pistols... because they can't be imported any more.

[Polygon]

My first carry was a Kel Tec P3AT. Later I moved on to a Kahr P380. Then I just got tired of the cost and availability of ammunition and went to a 9mm.

[westcoastmountainman]

I can tell you this about the 380. It was first produced in both the colt and browning pock lites in the early days when people understood that the longer the barrel, the more accurate, more velocity, and more energy on target time after time. These older guns had 3.5-5'' barrels. I know for a fact that a 380 hits harder than a snubby 38 special. There is a video on youtube where another 380 acp Makarov owner used speer gold dots against his own ballistics test penetrates 15''. Granted it is not the most scientific test in the world, it went through foam, balistics gel, bone, more foam and into a jug of water. Full expansion. My makarov holds 8+1, Weight (loaded): 1.71 pounds. WWW.Makarov.com I have packed this gun around the house concealed to check it out. It hides nicely with an iwb holster and you can hardly notice it. My H&R 922 pistol with a 6.5" barrell fully loaded weighs more then my Mak. And I have packed that old gun many a mile during the many deer seasons. And my 22 wheel gun is a joy to carry with a 9pound rifle. I know out of the maks barrel the "wimpy little 380" Will stop who ever I, god forbid, have to shoot. Granted Shot placement and bullet selection is just as important. I have seen a lot on the Fiocchi Extrema 380, it is loaded with hornadys XTP pill. That seems to be a solid preformer all the way around in all barrel lengths. Any one have any experience with the fiocchi? how about the Buffalo Bore's so called plus p's? they 380's power has been reduced over the years by all of the ammo manufactures. Even the older reloading books from the 70's show that,Lyman #45, 4.5gr of unique with 95gr jhp@1150fps from a 5'' pipe. now lyman shows a max load of 3.4-3.6 of unique with the same bullet weight at 950fps.

[dougtee]

Why .380? That's kind of like why 20 ga., or why .410, or why .243, or why 500 Nitro Express. You need more than a 12 Ga. and 30-06 and 45ACP!

[westcoastmountainman]

Why .380? That's kind of like why 20 ga., or why .410, or why .243, or why 500 Nitro Express. You need more than a 12 Ga. and 30-06 and 45ACP!

These questions do not make sense to be honest. What do you carry and WHY do You carry that? better question to ask is how often does your gun get left at home or in the truck? I bought my mak from my oldest brother for 40.00( with out the Safety and Firing pin. I paid 24.90(safety and firing pin)+5.35(Shipping)+40.00=70.25 into normally a 250.00-400.00+/- gun. It has a 3.84'' barrel with a 8+1 single stack mag. I own a 12ga, and a 7mm Rem Mag as well as a 22 lr revovler. I can shove a 95gr jhp out of that barrel at 1150fps which has more energy the a 38spcl out of a snubby. I plan on using my First real project as a ccw. It hides nicely and carries well. I was packing it around today and totally for got it was on my hip until I moved to stand up. My next gun will be a EAA Witness in the 40S&W. I am in school for criminal justice and plan on using my next pistol for service carry with my mak as a bug. So tell me and every one else here why not a 380 acp? This is no mouse gun.