Getting into re-loading for rifles - Lee dies?

[thx997303]

Standard reloading dies are 7/8-14 thread pitch.

The lee carbide sizer die works just as well as other carbide sizer dies. The steel dies work as well.

The powder through expander dies work just fine with jacketed bullets, but generally don't work as well for cast.
In the case of the cast reloads, the Lyman M die is the way to go. I'ts seater plug flares nicely, and big enough for cast, and it also places a step into the flare to aid in setting the bullet straight in the brass.

I've found that some Lee bullet seater dies have a small enough bore to scrape a properly flared case upon entry into the die. Again, they will work fine for jacketed.

Also, the seater plug in the lee dies is generally a one size fits all approach. These can be replaced of course.

For example, pistol dies come with a round nose seater plug. When seating non round nose bullets, I noticed the bullets will sometimes seat crooked, which does not agree well with my hollowpointing jig.

The answer here is to replace the seater plug with either a flat plug, or a custom profiled plug.

I haven't had an issue with the lee lock rings, but were I to replace them, it would be with Hornady style lock rings. whereas the RCBS rings have a set screw that screws into the die threads, the hornady rings have a cross screw, that tightens the ring around the threads. Very positive lock, and doesn't damage your threads.

[James]

Its just the annoyance of the lock rings that bugs me.


That is interesting. Why don't you like the lock rings? I love the fact I can swap out my dies so easily with very minimal re adjustment. Why do you find them annoying out of curiosity?

I use a single stage press, so each time I change a step, it entails changing the die. With dies with lock rings with set screws in them, you can adjust the die and set the screw. Next time you put it in the press, it is adjusted perfectly. No need to fool with it. With the Lee lock rings, no such luck. Every time you take it out and put it back in, you have to readjust it. It is a time consuming nuisance. By the time I buy some real lock rings, I may as well have bought the higher priced and better quality die set to begin with?????

[James]

The powder through expander dies work just fine with jacketed bullets, but generally don't work as well for cast.

The powder through expander die for pistol rounds is also your belling punch for lead bullets. The amount of bell they produce is simply a matter of the adjustment you put on it. If you need more bell, screw the die in until you get what you want. You don't need any bell for jacketed bullets.

Some styles of pistol dies had a sizer die, a comb decapping and inside sizer, plus belling die, and a seater die.

The Lee set has a carbide sizer with decapping punch installed, a powder through inside sizer and belling die, and a seating die.

Also, the seater plug in the lee dies is generally a one size fits all approach. These can be replaced of course.

All of the die sets I have, and of several brand names, have always came with one bullet seater punch. I know you can order different bullet seater punches, but I never have. It seems the universal types furnished work for the bullets I have used.

I've found that some Lee bullet seater dies have a small enough bore to scrape a properly flared case upon entry into the die. Again, they will work fine for jacketed.

Yes, I see this also in other brands. It doesn't seem to be a problem though. The bullets seat just fine without shaving lead off the bullet. The designers may have done this deliberately to help align the casing as the bullet was seated? (I like to put just enough flare on them that the lead bullet will start without scraping. More than that just works the brass unnecessarily.)

The Lee pistol dies I have work just fine for lead bullets. Only the lock rings bug me.

Usually a set of rifle dies consist of a full length sizing die with a combination decapping and inside sizing punch installed, and a seating die with a universal bullet seating punch installed. This is sufficient for loading rifle rounds. Once you get into it, you may want some specialized dies, but for starters, a standard set works just fine.

If I were shopping for dies today, I would buy RCBS if they were available, but if not and there was a set of Lee dies on the shelf, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Lee dies. That is just why I happen to have some Lee dies. Not my first choice, but useable.

[James]

About cost. Yes, as a rule the Lee stuff costs less than other brands. The thing to remember is that these tools will last you a very long time. I have die sets that are over 50 years old and have done lots of work. Whether they cost $10 or $30 doesn't even matter at this point. The point is that the original investment has been recouped many times over by savings in ammo. Buy what ever you want and enjoy the hobby. Never mind the price.

[thx997303]

Response in red.

The powder through expander dies work just fine with jacketed bullets, but generally don't work as well for cast.

The powder through expander die for pistol rounds is also your belling punch for lead bullets. The amount of bell they produce is simply a matter of the adjustment you put on it. If you need more bell, screw the die in until you get what you want. You don't need any bell for jacketed bullets.

I am familiar with the basic function of the die. Many times, the expander die will either not expand the brass to a large enough diameter to prevent shaving of lead from a cast bullet, or will expand the brass at an exaggerated angle, causing interference with the previously mentioned small bore of the seater body.



Some styles of pistol dies had a sizer die, a comb decapping and inside sizer, plus belling die, and a seater die.

The Lee set has a carbide sizer with decapping punch installed, a powder through inside sizer and belling die, and a seating die.

Also, the seater plug in the lee dies is generally a one size fits all approach. These can be replaced of course.

All of the die sets I have, and of several brand names, have always came with one bullet seater punch. I know you can order different bullet seater punches, but I never have. It seems the universal types furnished work for the bullets I have used.

Yes, I worded this poorly. What I'm trying to convey, is that for the utmost in precision, a different style seater plug is generally required. I have loaded many rounds that looked fine by eye, but the moment I hollow pointed the round, concentricity issues became apparent. Switching to a custom punch removed the issue.

I've found that some Lee bullet seater dies have a small enough bore to scrape a properly flared case upon entry into the die. Again, they will work fine for jacketed.

Yes, I see this also in other brands. It doesn't seem to be a problem though. The bullets seat just fine without shaving lead off the bullet. The designers may have done this deliberately to help align the casing as the bullet was seated? (I like to put just enough flare on them that the lead bullet will start without scraping. More than that just works the brass unnecessarily.)

The problem I was mentioning wasn't with lead shaving, but the occasional damaging of a case mouth due to the small diameter of the die body. Also, I agree with your flaring method. It is the same way I flare my rounds.

The Lee pistol dies I have work just fine for lead bullets. Only the lock rings bug me.

The lee dies I have also work fine for cast bullets, with the exception of the 9mm expander. It will not put enough flare on the brass. I have a Lyman M die for 9mm because of that. My biggest point with any dies and lead bullets, (off topic I know) is that some firearms may require a larger cast bullet than others, and a die set at the small end of tolerance may have trouble with properly sized cast bullets for that gun.

Though really, I haven't had much success with the powder through expander dies and cast. The successes I have had with them have only been successes in the sense that they worked, but not really well. I much prefer the Lyman M dies for this use.

Usually a set of rifle dies consist of a full length sizing die with a combination decapping and inside sizing punch installed, and a seating die with a universal bullet seating punch installed. This is sufficient for loading rifle rounds. Once you get into it, you may want some specialized dies, but for starters, a standard set works just fine.

If I were shopping for dies today, I would buy RCBS if they were available, but if not and there was a set of Lee dies on the shelf, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Lee dies. That is just why I happen to have some Lee dies. Not my first choice, but useable.

In the end, Lee dies work fine, but have their flaws.

[James]

I have a set of 44 mag RCBS carbide dies (carbide sizer) and except for the carbide every part is machined steel. On the Lee dies the lock rings and bullet seater punch is aluminum. My experience with tools is that machined steel is very much stronger and longer lasting than aluminum tools. Yes, the RCBS dies cost more up front, but you will never be sorry to have much better quality.

I have some old C&H dies that also have aluminum lock rings and bullet seater punch. The C&H brand was also a low price choice back in the years that they were found on shelves locally.

I have a set of Redding dies and they are all steel.

I have some old Herters dies and they are all steel.

You get what you pay for.

[James]

I am familiar with the basic function of the die. Many times, the expander die will either not expand the brass to a large enough diameter to prevent shaving of lead from a cast bullet, or will expand the brass at an exaggerated angle,

This is a symptom of brass of different lengths. I personally do not trim pistol brass, but if you want the belling and crimping to be precise, you really should.

[FrankenHollow]

I am familiar with the basic function of the die. Many times, the expander die will either not expand the brass to a large enough diameter to prevent shaving of lead from a cast bullet, or will expand the brass at an exaggerated angle,

This is a symptom of brass of different lengths. I personally do not trim pistol brass, but if you want the belling and crimping to be precise, you really should.

I believe he's simply referring to being unhappy with the profile of the expander in the Lee PTE die.

Completely independent of case length, I've seen the same thing with 9x19mm dies and .32 S&W dies. The profile of the expander is completely useless for the application.

My .32 S&W PTE die is so bad I threw it in the corner of the room, as a door stop. The Lyman 'M' die is immeasurably better. (And doesn't give you the incessant 'clunkity-clunk-clunk' with every press stroke.)

[thx997303]

^ What he said.

The profile seems acceptable for 45 acp, and 38 spcl, but it doesn't work well for the 9mm luger.

I will still be getting an M die for my 45 though.

[James]

OK, this discussion has really got me looking at belling and expander punches.



I pulled three expander punches for some of my die sets. I don't have one for 9mm but did have a Lee set for 38/357. I see where this profile can be a problem. You can only take it so far then the casing is going to hit the shoulder. If you don't have enough bell at this point, you are SOL.

The C&H expander was also the de-capping part.

The Redding die set had the de-capper in the sizing die and a separate die for expanding and belling.

On both the C&H and Redding expanders, note that there is nothing to prevent the belling taper to give you as much bell as you want. Just screw it in until the bell is right.

Another thing that I noticed is that on the C&H and Redding parts, that part that works the brass is highly polished. Not so on the Lee dies. No polish at all. You can see and feel the cutting rings the lathe made. It is rough as a cob.

What was it I said earlier about quality?

[James]

Perhaps you should read Lee's Brag Sheet?

[MarshallDodge]

I have used Lee, Dillon, Hornady, and RCBS dies for reloading rifle and out of all of them I think the Hornady New Dimension dies are the best bang for the buck.

According to my quick look at google shopping, the Hornady dies would be about twice the price of the Lee dies after I add the full-length sizer. The Hornady has a lifetime warranty, Lee only 2 years. Are there other reasons they're worth nearly twice as much?

I've read several places that even though I only have 1 rifle in each caliber, I'll eventually need to do a full-length size after a few uses. If that's not true and I don't need a FL, then the price is pretty similar between the Hornady and Lee.

Will the Hornady dies just fit and work in my Lee turret?

Thanks for all the responses so far!

I usually wait for the Hornady dies to go on sale and get them for around $28. Yes, that is more than a Lee set, and do not come with a shellholder, but I stand by what I said, Hornady rifle dies have treated me very well.

They will fit your turret press.

[FrankenHollow]

Perhaps you should read Lee's Brag Sheet?

Hyundai can accuse Lamborghini of stealing their ideas, all they want. Their cars still won't magically become Lamborghinis.


Lee dies usually work well (just not for me, apparently), and plenty of people are happy with them.
...But they are not everything Richard Lee claims them to be, and no one is 'stealing all of his ideas', as he likes to have people think.

[manithree]

I was at Cabela's today and they had the Hornady .22-250 dies and the Lee Deluxe .243 dies. So that's what I bought. The price difference was only a few dollars ($33-$35, I think), and I doubt I'll need a .22-250 full-length resizer any time soon. So maybe after Christmas I'll have a good idea which set I like better.

[James]

I am thinking the Hornady set includes a full length sizing die and a seating die. To full length size you need to turn the sizing die in until it touches the shell holder on full stroke, plus a quarter turn. If you don't want to full length size, you can back the die out half a turn or a little more. It will still size the neck, but won't bump the shoulder back. This works pretty well for rounds fired in the same bolt action rifle they will be used in again. For other actions, or if your reloads will be used in more than one rifle, it is wise to full length size them.