Came really close to using my weapon this weekend....

[gravedancer]

This past saturday, I came about as close as I ever hope to come to having to use my weapon.

My girlfriend and I (and her little 5lb rat dog) were camping up at Trial lake, and spent most of the day Saturday fishing on the opposite side of the lake from our camp. We were walking back to my truck with our fishing gear and fish in hand, and our dog walking beside us on a leash. We encountered a couple of larger dogs (one looked like a Rotty and the other a pit) running around loose, no owner in sight, not on a leash, and didnt even have tags that I noticed.

The dogs saw our little rat dog and charged him aggressively. I had both hands full of fishing gear at that point so I was a bit slow to react. The rotty looking one started barking and growling and snapping, and actually hot his teeth around the neck of our dog, while Im in the process of dropping the tackle box and stuff I had in my right hand so I could get to my weapon. I also started beating the thing on the head with the fishing pole I was still carrying in my left hand at the same time.

Unfortunately, by the time I was in a position to actually draw my weapon, my GF had interposed herself between me and the target, in an effort to pick her dog up and get it away from the other dogs. Then the dogs turned on her and their body language indicated they were thinking of making a run at our dog (and in effect her too, since she was carrying it by this point). I gave the closest one another good whack on the nose with the fishing pole while shifting my position to get a clear shot that didnt have my GF (or other nearby people/vehicles) in the line of fire, and fortunately the dogs backed off a bit, about half a second before the closest one started catching .40 JHP.

At this point, a guy emerged from behind a vehicle nearby and started looking at the dogs, and at me standing there between them and my gf with my hand on my gun. I ask the guy "are these your dogs?" to which I get an unconcerned "yeah, why" as reply. His carefree attitude about his dogs kind of set me off a bit, given what had just happened, so I came back with a reply which I probably shouldnt have, and said "well they were trying to take a piece out of my girlfriend and our dog, and they were about half a second from me shooting their a**es, so you might want to put them on a leash like the park rules say". The guy didnt even make a reply to me after that, he just walked away while calling for his dogs (which continued to simply ignore him and run around wherever they wanted).

[quychang]

Too bad you couldn't do the right thing...which would be to shoot the owner. People like that shouldn't be allowed to have dogs. After I got every thing settled down, I would have made a trip down to the camp ground host or closest ranger to file a report.

Mel

[OneShotXD]

Dogs are lucky you were carrying the fishing gear... I bet the owner would have cared what his dogs were doing after he saw 'em dead on the ground.


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[gravedancer]

Too bad you couldn't do the right thing...which would be to shoot the owner. People like that shouldn't be allowed to have dogs. After I got every thing settled down, I would have made a trip down to the camp ground host or closest ranger to file a report.

Mel

[Daeyel]

I don't blame you for being upset. I think I'd have been yelling long before then, both to intimidate the dogs and get the owners to show up. Something like

"IF SOMEONE DOESN'T COME COLLECT THEIR DOGS *RIGHT NOW* BEFORE THEY ATTACK ME, I AM GOING TO SHOOT THEM!"

Yeah, they may get a little upset, but it might get their heinies in gear. I repeat - any dog not on a leash should be fair game to be shot - whether it is causing a problem *right now* or not. Any dog picked up by Animal Control should be subject to a fine before release - a good stiff $80 fine. Leash it, or get rid of it.

[RRALower]

I hope you learned a lesson, and that is - keep your gun hand free so that you can draw when necessary. I won't even hold hands with my wife on my strong side, and she understands why.

[quychang]

When I posted earlier about shooting the owner, it was obviously tongue in cheek....but not very. While the dogs are doing the damage, and are your immediate concern, it's not their fault their stupid owner can't follow rules. If you're going to own dogs at all, and particularly breeds like Rotties or Pit Bulls that have a bad rap (not entirely undeserved), then by god you should be held responsible for controlling them. My wife has one of those rodents you're speaking of that got attached. She's a pure bred Papillion with 4 akc agility titles and a glowing future in the sport. Not to mention that she's very well loved. One bite from one of those dogs could kill her at worst, or at least end her competitive career. I promise you, my hands would have been empty and my gun would be cocked and locked before the dogs got to her. I would have been yelling at the top of my lungs at the dogs, facing them down, and firing a warning shot into the air in order to try and get the owners attention. That would have taken until the dogs were about half way to my dog, then I'd have been putting them down. And I'm a dog lover. I'd feel worse about shooting those dogs, than I would about shooting the sad excuse for a human that put me in that situation. How confident am I that I would do that? Pretty much 100%. I've played that same scenario out in my head a thousand times. We have a pit bull that lives next door. Nice friendly dog, with people. He's already chased and bitten at least two neighborhood dogs. All because the owner is a dumb kid that doesn't keep an eye on him. It's friendly with my Border Collie, but she's near his size, if not weight. But if he ever goes for the Pap, he'll get one attempt from me to turn him....yes I know the dog and think I can, but only one attempt. He will not get to the little dog, at least not breathing.

My Border Collie is off leash in my yard, she's obedience trained and stays right with me. In a strange situation, like camping, she's leashed. For her protection, not for anyone elses....oh and it happens to be the rule as well, at least in the camp ground.

As I mentioned, I'd be speaking to camp ground host or ranger, and would make a special stop in Kamas at the ranger station to lodge another complaint. Though I imagine if I did have to fire my gun, they would come to me to see what the situation was.

Mel

[gravedancer]

I hope you learned a lesson, and that is - keep your gun hand free so that you can draw when necessary. I won't even hold hands with my wife on my strong side, and she understands why.

Sad thing is, this was probably one of the few times when my gun hand wasnt free, for that very reason. My GF knows that if were holding hands walking around, shes on my weak side. I normally try to keep my right hand free if at all possible. This was one case where it wasnt really possible, at least not without making my gf carry more than her fair share of gear for the walk back to the truck. Really the biggest reason why those dogs are alive today is that my GF got in my line of fire in her efforts to save her dog. Weve already discussed the situation and she knows that if something like that happens in the future, she shouldnt be getting in the line of fire like that. What it boiled down to in this case was shes so used to me carrying that she didnt even think about me having my gun on when we were fishing.

[Daeyel]

Mel, do not fire a warning shot into the air.

First of all, it's dangerous.
2nd, it tells the court, 'Yeah, I was in danger, but not THAT much danger.' In thinking about this, if I draw on a dog, I give it until I am aimed to back off. If it stops its charge by the time I have my firearm trained on it, then I will hold fire. If it veers off, I will hold fire, but track the dog with my firearm until I am assured it is no longer a threat. If it is still coming at me, I start pulling the trigger. Repeatedly until the threat is stopped.

Now, I have not thought this through in any form of completeness. I need to figure out at what range I start drawing. It is probably a lot farther out than I am envisioning in my mind, from what I read of encounters and how much territory a dog can cover in the time it takes to draw. I welcome advice or considerations I may not have thought of.

Oh, and the firearm does NOT get reholstered until the owners have made their appearance. I figure they are not going to be happy, and I want them to see my firearm and be 'armed society is a polite society'-ed into at least being some form of civil, rather than violent. And if they decide to come armed as well, or decide to attack physically, I'll at least be ready.

[QBall]

+1 to Daeyel on the warning shot. There is almost never a good reason for a warning shot. Gunfire MIGHT be considered for making noise to gather attention if you are hopelessly lost, or possibly if you or someone with you is severely injured and you need someone to find you and assist you, If this rare occurrence were to happen, the shot must still be controlled, into an area or object that ensures safety. Loud yelling or possibly a whistle are better choices.

[quychang]

+1 to Daeyel on the warning shot. There is almost never a good reason for a warning shot. Gunfire MIGHT be considered for making noise to gather attention if you are hopelessly lost, or possibly if you or someone with you is severely injured and you need someone to find you and assist you, If this rare occurrence were to happen, the shot must still be controlled, into an area or object that ensures safety. Loud yelling or possibly a whistle are better choices.

You're both right, and I guess it's my desire not to hurt the dogs speaking rather than good sense. How about this? I miss low with the first round? And you're also right, the owner is probably going to come around the bend with blood in his eyes, an unholstered gun might make him think twice about doing something stupid. Though by that point my adrenaline would probably be so high that he really wouldn't want to attack me.

Mel

[My Trigger Guard]

Small critisizm,

I continually think about this as well, I am carry a bunch of crap and all the sudden I need to use my firearm. Quite worrying about property in your hands when lifes could be in danger. Drop whatever you have and draw. I have practiced and thought of this drill many times.

Not to say it didnt turn out well and or we can all say in hindsight and what we would do hypothetically. Just saying what if it went south much faster or was much worse. Worrying about property in your hands is precious time wasted. Defning line for lethal force is life before property.

Everyone always says you need to think about things in advance and plan what you would so you react properly. Think about it make a plan for next time.

Would I have shot the dog not sure, but I definatly would have been an instant away from being able to fire. Perhaps you felt that lethal force was not neccessary and you could have handled the situation which is why you didnt draw to begin with. In which you are correct you did handle it well. Everyone went home alive and that is what matters.

Anyhow just my two cents, the entire time I was reading your post I was screaming drop the friggin poles already !!!

[mbarnson]

I hope you learned a lesson, and that is - keep your gun hand free so that you can draw when necessary. I won't even hold hands with my wife on my strong side, and she understands why.

But my wife is right-handed. I'm right-handed. We both carry concealed. How the heck do you hold hands if both of you want to keep your strong side free?

[DaKnife]

Learn to walk backward.

[Daeyel]

I hope you learned a lesson, and that is - keep your gun hand free so that you can draw when necessary. I won't even hold hands with my wife on my strong side, and she understands why.

But my wife is right-handed. I'm right-handed. We both carry concealed. How the heck do you hold hands if both of you want to keep your strong side free?

This is where Islam has an advantage.
At least they know who has their back. So long as they treat her accordingly.