buy a new gun. Questions

[jktseug]

I know I have seen on here that in Utah, there is no gun registrations, and that when you buy a new gun from a dealer, the only people that know about the sale, and what the gun is, are the purchaser and the seller. Some people worry about having a gun sale reported to the federal or local authorities about what they purchased, and having it tied to them, as well as what happens if it is sold and how it is used after it is sold.

My question is, what are the laws on that in Utah. What exactly happens when you do buy a gun?
For example, background check is done without a CFP, a call to BCI for those with a CFP, WIth the background check, does it have the information on the gun you are buying, or just the type of gun if that? the 4473 form is filled out and kept by the FFL for 20 years, or sent to the atf. It has the serial number, my name, address, it looks like the social security number is optional, Make sure you are not a restricted person, and state and signature.

I have heard you don't need to do anything when you sell a gun, so if I sell a gun because i didn't carry my .45 anymore I don't need any paperwork. What happens if they happens to lose it, sell it again, or use it in self defense. If the record is pulled from the FFL, How do they know which FFL to ask? Are they reporting to the ATF what firearms are sold through them? And if they get the paper with my address is it good enough to say I did sell it to someone else, am I required to remember who I sold it to?

If I am buying a gun out of state, do both the FFL used to ship it, and the FFL used to buy it fill out a 4473 type form, is it a different form, and do they have to keep the records for 20 years as well?
Are FFL's required to keep them offsite or duplicates? What would happen if there was a fire at the FFL and the 4473 forms were burned? is there any legal liability for that with the FFL?

It is a lot of odd questions. Someone had brought up to me that when they bought a gun, they thought it was reported to ATF and the serial number went with the background check. I told them Utah doesn't have registration and the only people that know about the sale are the licensed firearm salesman and you but they have to keep records. I just like my information to be accurate and thorough. Also if I ever decide to buy or sell a gun on KSL, I want to know the legal way to do it.

[UtahJarhead]

I know I have seen on here that in Utah, there is no gun registrations, and that when you buy a new gun from a dealer, the only people that know about the sale, and what the gun is, are the purchaser and the seller. Some people worry about having a gun sale reported to the federal or local authorities about what they purchased, and having it tied to them, as well as what happens if it is sold and how it is used after it is sold.

When you purchase a gun through an FFL, a 4473 is filled out. By law, these are not supposed to be kept for longer than a specified period of time by the FFL. I think if the company goes out of business, it is sent to the ATF? Do they destroy them? I HIGHLY doubt it, even though they're supposed to after a specified amount of time (3 years? I dunno)

My question is, what are the laws on that in Utah. What exactly happens when you do buy a gun?

If you buy it from a private party, the minimum is that it's being purchased (or given) and not stolen from the person. Basically... it's a sale just like you'd sell someone some baseball cards. Lots of people ask for proof of residency so they ask to see their CFP. This also proves you are law abiding. As a seller, you are NOT required to know the person is 'clean'. You just must have no knowledge or reason to believe that they are a restricted person. If you buy it from an FFL, you fill out a 4473 and you must pass a background check which involves them calling BCI in the case of CFP possession. Otherwise, I think it's NICS that handles the check. I don't know since I had a CFP when I purchased my first gun.

For example, background check is done without a CFP, a call to BCI for those with a CFP, WIth the background check, does it have the information on the gun you are buying, or just the type of gun if that? the 4473 form is filled out and kept by the FFL for 20 years, or sent to the atf. It has the serial number, my name, address, it looks like the social security number is optional, Make sure you are not a restricted person, and state and signature.

Utah does *NOT* know what gun or how many you are purchasing. When they call BCI to inquire about the status of your CFP, BCI just says "Yep, it's legit!" That's it. It is a CFP verification and NOTHING MORE. Not only that, but registration is illegal in Utah, if I remember correctly. Also, it is required by law that the ATF *NOT* digitize the 4473s they have in their possession. Do they anyway? Probably...

I have heard you don't need to do anything when you sell a gun, so if I sell a gun because i didn't carry my .45 anymore I don't need any paperwork. What happens if they happens to lose it, sell it again, or use it in self defense. If the record is pulled from the FFL, How do they know which FFL to ask? Are they reporting to the ATF what firearms are sold through them? And if they get the paper with my address is it good enough to say I did sell it to someone else, am I required to remember who I sold it to?

When you sell a gun, it is no longer your responsibility. It is the person that purchased the gun. There is no record kept where the person purchased the gun. Not even from an FFL. They have to find out through other means, like the receipt lying around the apartment. You are NOT required to remember anything about the gun, nor are you required to remember anything about the purchaser.

If I am buying a gun out of state, do both the FFL used to ship it, and the FFL used to buy it fill out a 4473 type form, is it a different form, and do they have to keep the records for 20 years as well?
Are FFL's required to keep them offsite or duplicates? What would happen if there was a fire at the FFL and the 4473 forms were burned? is there any legal liability for that with the FFL?

If you buy a handgun from out of state, it must be delivered to you by an FFL in your own state. If you buy a long gun from out of state, it must only be sold through an FFL, either in your state or the selling party's state.

It is a lot of odd questions. Someone had brought up to me that when they bought a gun, they thought it was reported to ATF and the serial number went with the background check. I told them Utah doesn't have registration and the only people that know about the sale are the licensed firearm salesman and you but they have to keep records. I just like my information to be accurate and thorough. Also if I ever decide to buy or sell a gun on KSL, I want to know the legal way to do it.

Your information appears to be pretty solid.

[althor]

Lots of people ask for proof of residency so they ask to see their CFP. This also proves you are law abiding.

Actually, it only proves that you haven't been caught/convicted of anything.

[jktseug]

I am glad my information is pretty good. I am also glad to find out selling and buying third party in state is pretty straightforward and always off the books.

[LocknLoadGunsGear]

AS a dealer, we are required to keep all form 4473 for 20 years from transaction date. If we go out of business we are required to box all forms and send to ATF. Only one that knows about firearm transaction is you and dealer, unless somewhere down the road the firearm is used in a commission of a crime or for some reason a question would arise concerning the transaction. As far as dealer to dealer, dealer sends other dealer copy of signed FFL firearm is then recorded on disposition side of bound book stating dealer firearm is being transferred to and firearm is sent to that dealer, dealer on receiving end is the one who would conduct background and form 4473 on purchaser.