want to build/buy an AR-10 (or maybe AR-15??)

[gravedancer]

As the title says, Im looking at buying a semi-auto .308 for hunting. Ive been looking at some of the "AR style" .308 (or 7.62 nato) options out there, but it occured to me it might be cheaper (and hopefully not too difficult) to assemble an AR-10 from parts. Anyone know of a good place to order the necessary parts, or if there are any kits out there for this purpose ?

[Car Knocker]

Looking around a bit, it seems an AR-10 with scope and loaded magazine may weigh 10 pounds or more. It might be a bit on the heavy side to be lugging up and down hills. It's possible, though, that there are some that weigh less than the models I Googled.

[Snowman]

What did you think of the other semiauto .308s? The RFB looks sweet, a little pricy. Or the more hunting oiented BAR? Or a FAL? The springfield M1a would be amazing. And there are ak47 syle rifles in .308. Redjacket from that tv show cutomized one to be a decent 1000 yd gun.

My first time shooting an AR was with a AR10. I liked it. Dead on, not much recoil. I'm pretty sure it was a dpms.

[gravedancer]

What did you think of the other semiauto .308s? The RFB looks sweet, a little pricy. Or the more hunting oiented BAR? Or a FAL? The springfield M1a would be amazing. And there are ak47 syle rifles in .308. Redjacket from that tv show cutomized one to be a decent 1000 yd gun.

My first time shooting an AR was with a AR10. I liked it. Dead on, not much recoil. I'm pretty sure it was a dpms.

I just thought it would be nice to have an AR, but ive seen some of the other semi auto .308s out there. And yeah if I buy a "complete" AR10 it will probably be one of the DPMS models available.

Just so im clear on the chambering... if I get it chambered for 7.62 nato it can also fire the commercial .308 cartridge, but the opposite isnt true, right ?

[Murch]

As I recall you've got it backwards. If you buy 7.62 NATO it is not recommended to fire the .308 Winchester in that rifle, but you can shoot 7.62 NATO in a .308. This is the opposite of the 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington. You can fire .223 in the 5.56 NATO, but it is not recommended to fire 5.56 in a firearm chambered in .223 Rem. I'm sure you were aware of the 5.56/.223 round restrictions.

Edit: Someone correct me if I've got this wrong. Thanks

[Gunlvr]

http://madogre.com/?p=2051

crusader broadsward?

[gravedancer]

SO... the main reason I was looking at the .308 (or 7.62 nato) cartridge was because I was afraid the 5.56/.223 would be insufficient and/or illegal for deer hunting. Ive since verified that (at least in Utah) the .223 would be legal for deer hunting, and some google searching has revealed it wouldnt be as innefective as I had feared. So, that being said, I may just run to Cabellas and purchase an AR-15 in the standard 5.56 nato configuration.

My understanding is that with the AR's modular design, in theory if I didnt like the 5.56 cartridge, I could get a new upper/barrel/mags in .308 and re-use the rest of the components. My question is, having no personal experience modifying an AR, how easy/doable would that be, or how much would it cost me to take everything to a gunsmith that knows what the heck they are doing and get them to help me or do it for me ?

If it would be too much of a pain to switch later, I might just go ahead and go with the .308 to begin with, but if it wouldnt be that hard, then I do like the much more affordable ammo cost for the .223. Also, does anyone have any practical experience hunting medium to large game animals (deer or elk) with the .223/5.56 ? How effective is it really, assuming decent shot placement ?

[RoccoRacer]

I don't think you can upgrade an AR15 to shoot the 308 because the casing is a bit longer than the 223, hence the need to call it an AR10 since the mag well is bigger in the lower.
...or I have no idea what I'm talking about, someone please confirm

[Gunlvr]

You cannot put 308 sized brass in an AR15, that is the AR10 platform.

If you want to do a caliber change for the AR style rifles the easiest way is to buy a differnt barreled upper. Prices for barreled uppers vary from ~$350 to ~$900 or so depending on options (rails, barrel, etc.)

The ar15 platform can have MANY calibers
300blk
6.8spc
30AR
etc.

If you want to assemble an AR look at the kits at Palmetto state armory. all you need is a stripped lower, the rest comes in the kit. The upper will be barreled for you.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... -kits.html

I gathered the parts for my AR. My upper is a SAM-R 16" barreled upper (not free floated ) magpul CTR stock, MOE handguard etc. I love my upper, it is very accurate (with someone else shooting it ) but it is heavy. I have thought of sending the upper to Adco to take some metal off of the barrel to make it lighter.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR15-Upp ... ps-s/1.htm

[Car Knocker]

The .308 Winchester is too long to feed through the AR-15. The 7.62x39 will work as will some .308s based on the 5.56/.223 case.

[Gunlvr]

As I recall you've got it backwards. If you buy 7.62 NATO it is not recommended to fire the .308 Winchester in that rifle, but you can shoot 7.62 NATO in a .308. This is the opposite of the 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington. You can fire .223 in the 5.56 NATO, but it is not recommended to fire 5.56 in a firearm chambered in .223 Rem. I'm sure you were aware of the 5.56/.223 round restrictions.

Edit: Someone correct me if I've got this wrong. Thanks

.308 is the same as 7.62x51

5.56 is a higher pressure round then .223
Bravo's SAM-R chamber is a "match" chamber for 5.56 and .223
.223 wylde is a match chamber for .223 or 5.56

[Gunlvr]

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/4920 ... __FAQ.html

Read this, although it is more geared to the military style vs a hunting style AR, but still VERY usefull info.

this could probably be updated (300BLK is basically 300whisper).

"15) How many calibers can I get uppers that fit my .223 (AR-15) lower? What are they?

While the list is nearly endless with all the wildcats possible. Here are the some of the more common and more interesting uppers that are (or have been) produced for the standard AR-15 lower (may not be up-to-date):

223/5.56
6 x 45
7 x 40
357 Mag Rimless
300 Whisper / .300Fireball / 300-.221
6.5 x 40
.30 Coyote (30 x 45)
.17 Remington
.17 Mach IV
.20 Tactical
.19 Calhoun
5.7 FN (developed by Rhinland Arms - no word yet on who is going to mfg it)
.204 Ruger
6.8 SPC
30 HRT
338 Spectre
10 mm Mag
35/40
219 WASP-C
7.62 x 40
5.45x39
7.62 x 39
.338 x 39
6 PPC
6.5 Grendel / 6.5 AR / 6.5 PPC Improved
22 PPC
7 sCAR ....
30 Carbine
5.45x39 / .21 Ghengis
7 BR
6.5 BR
300 Sabre
8mm (belt fed upper)
.308 (again a belt fed upper - no longer available)
458 SOCOM
44 Mag
440 CorBon
44 AMP
.475 Tremor
50AE
499LW
50 Beowulf
.50 BMG (single shot)
.50 Blackpowder (1 made)
9mm
45ACP
32ACP
22 LR
17 HV
10mm
7.62x25
224 BoZ
7.62x24
9x23
.357 Sig
.357 Auto
40S&W
223 WSSM
243 WSSM
300 WSSM
.30 RAR"

[Hawk87]

If you want to hunt with it, a AR 15 in 6.5 grendal or 6.8 SPC (more ammo choices for 6.8 ) would be good. My advice would be to buy 2 different uppers, one in 5.56 and one in 6.8. Also, I personally wouldn't deer hunt with a 5.56, but to each their own.

[Jesse 8]

+1 to hawk. It's a .22 caliber round. That's small people. I'm no expert, but what's the average grain in that bullet? 65? Whereas the .308 standard is the same as the .30-06, a 150 grain bullet. No way in you know where would I hunt elk with a .223 or 556. I've helped gut and packed out a 5 point. Those are BIG animals. Deer is maybe doable, but why not go with something bigger? It makes your job easier. However....My step grandfather used a 5 millimeter, to my knowledge no longer in production, to take (make that poach)MANY a deer in his time(50+) He also favored a .22 over a 30-30 for one kill. These are just one guys opinions. YMMV

[gravedancer]

Yeah I had always heard .223 was no good for deer. Mostly I heard that from my dad growing up, and it sort of sunk in over time. But yesterday I was doing some googling and found quite a bit of evidence indicating that with the right bullet, and assuming decent shot placement, the .223 works just fine. A couple guys even posted videos showing them opening up the chest cavity of deer they had taken with a .223 and the damage was almost on par with what I would expect from a .308 (which is what ive always used before). Im still leaning towards the AR-10 platform in .308, but it wouldve been nice to have the cheaper to buy and cheaper to shoot .223 as an option.