Unarmed kid killed by neighborhood watch

[gravedancer]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/12/justice/f ... hpt=hp_bn1

Short version is a 17 year old black kid is walking to his relatives house inside a gated community in florida around sunset, armed with a bag of skittles and an iced tea. Neighborhood watch leader calls 911 to report a "suspicious black man". 911 dispatcher tells him not to confront the individual, but he apparently does so anyway. By the time the cops arrive, the kid is dead, and while details of the confrontation are nonexistant at this point, it was reported that the gunshot was heard on the recorded 911 call. Neighborhood watch captain claims the shoot was self defense, and thus far police are buying that story and not charging him.

[G1785]

The only thing that seems messed up is that so much is falling on race in this story the reason he's free is because he has not been proven guilty of anything as of yet but when more details come out he may still end up being charged with something.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[gravedancer]

The only thing that seems messed up is that so much is falling on race in this story the reason he's free is because he has not been proven guilty of anything as of yet but when more details come out he may still end up being charged with something.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

Yeah the residents are all up in arms because they are assuming its race related. Unfortunately, its hard to get away from the implication in stories like this. Of course if its proved that the kid in question wasnt dressed suspiciously, or doing anything suspicious, then people will ask "so what was suspicious about this kid that the guy called 911 to report a suspicious black man, other than that he was black".

We dont know at this point what happened when the 2 people had their confrontation. And really I think that so far the police are doing the right thing in not charging him if the statement from the police that they dont have any evidence or witnesses to disprove the shooters assertion of self defense. I do think it needs to be investigated though, and it sounds like the police are doing that.

[G1785]

Yeah I agree If the kid didn't do anything wrong and was just a kid who happined to be black walking through the neighborhood then I personally think the zimmerman guy was in the wrong for even confronting the kid in that case he would have put himself in that situation. But I don't know what happined we will just have to wait till more comes out I guess

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[B Cart]

From our limited information, this is what I would GUESS happened (this is all my opinion, and could be way off base):

Overzealous 28 yr old kid wants to be an LEO as a profession. Decides to be the “captain” of his own neighborhood watch program so he can put it on his resume. He sees this black kid walking down the street in a hoodie, and for whatever reason, thinks it’s suspicious and calls it in. The 911 dispatch tells him not to approach and wait for police, but he decides he’s going to take matters into his own hands anyway. He probably pulled up to the kid and slowed down, and maybe even asked what the kid was doing. In typical teenager punk fashion, the black kid maybe mouthed off or told the kid to mind his own business. The amped up neighborhood watch captain then probably got out of his vehicle and heated words were exchanged. A fight then started, and when the black kid starts fighting back, the neighborhood watch wannabe thinks he has to defend himself so he pulls out his gun and shoots the kid in the chest.

I think the neighborhood watch boy should have done what dispatch told him and stayed in his car. The police would have come, sorted things out, and both kids would have probably gone home to their families.

[gravedancer]

From our limited information, this is what I would GUESS happened (this is all my opinion, and could be way off base):

Overzealous 28 yr old kid wants to be an LEO as a profession. Decides to be the “captain” of his own neighborhood watch program so he can put it on his resume. He sees this black kid walking down the street in a hoodie, and for whatever reason, thinks it’s suspicious and calls it in. The 911 dispatch tells him not to approach and wait for police, but he decides he’s going to take matters into his own hands anyway. He probably pulled up to the kid and slowed down, and maybe even asked what the kid was doing. In typical teenager punk fashion, the black kid maybe mouthed off or told the kid to mind his own business. The amped up neighborhood watch captain then probably got out of his vehicle and heated words were exchanged. A fight then started, and when the black kid starts fighting back, the neighborhood watch wannabe thinks he has to defend himself so he pulls out his gun and shoots the kid in the chest.

Thats pretty close to what I think happened, but again we have very little information to go on at this point. For all we know the media portrayal of the black kid as an innocent victim could be way off. There could have been other problems in the neighborhood recently caused by him (or someone else matching his description) that led the neighborhood watch guy to confront him. Maybe he stole the skittles and/or iced tea from some other kids in the neighborhood, and thats why the guy confronted him, ad things escalated out of hand. Who knows.

[B Cart]

For all we know the media portrayal of the black kid as an innocent victim could be way off. There could have been other problems in the neighborhood recently caused by him (or someone else matching his description) that led the neighborhood watch guy to confront him. Maybe he stole the skittles and/or iced tea from some other kids in the neighborhood, and thats why the guy confronted him, ad things escalated out of hand. Who knows.

Very possible. It does say though, according to the article in the Miami Herald, that he was just visiting inlaws for the weekend and had walked to the 7-11 gas station during the half time show of the NBA Allstar basketball game to get some treats. From that info, I doubt he stole the candy from neighborhood kids, and it looks like he was just on his way home. Either way, we are definitely lacking a ton of details in this story.

What I'd really like the police to release is the 911 tapes from the phone call, which supposedly was playing all the way through the shooting. All of the relevant info like what made the victim suspicious, what was said between the two, what took place after the confrontation, and why the neighborhood watch captain felt he had to shoot, has not been given in anything i've read.

I guess it is somewhat telling though that the police have not filed any charges agains the shooter. There must be some evidence that the shooting was in self defense

[YoZUpZ]

Could it possibly be that the media is trying to portray the "poor black teenager" as the victim... No, this never happens. This man just randomly shoots an innocent oppressed teen because he was black. And the cops don't arrest the evil murderer because they hate black people as well.

What most media sources aren't telling you is that this man called the police because this kid was acting suspicious... When the police responded, the shooter had a pretty severe and bloody injury to the back of his head (straight from the Chief's mouth)... But of course, the media leaves that out, and they replace that with interviews with the parents talking about how great of a kid he was, and how the system is broken, and out to the the blacks.

[gravedancer]

Could it possibly be that the media is trying to portray the "poor black teenager" as the victim... No, this never happens. This man just randomly shoots an innocent oppressed teen because he was black. And the cops don't arrest the evil murderer because they hate black people as well.

What most media sources aren't telling you is that this man called the police because this kid was acting suspicious... When the police responded, the shooter had a pretty severe and bloody injury to the back of his head (straight from the Chief's mouth)... But of course, the media leaves that out, and they replace that with interviews with the parents talking about how great of a kid he was, and how the system is broken, and out to the the blacks.

I hadnt seen any of the information about how the kid was acting or the condition of the shooter yet when I started this thread earlier. At that time all I had was a cnn article with very little info.

[B Cart]

What most media sources aren't telling you is that this man called the police because this kid was acting suspicious... When the police responded, the shooter had a pretty severe and bloody injury to the back of his head (straight from the Chief's mouth)... But of course, the media leaves that out, and they replace that with interviews with the parents talking about how great of a kid he was, and how the system is broken, and out to the the blacks.

I agree with you that the media will definitely try to spin a "poor victim innocent teen gunned down in cold blood" story, and I'm sure the "victim" isn't quite as innocent as they make him seem. What bothers me though is this: The police were on the way, and dispatch told the neighborhood watch guy to stand down and let the police handle it. At this point, unless this kid was in the commission of a felony, or threatening the lives of the neighborhood watch captain or others (pretty hard to do with out a weapon), the neighborhood watch captain should have stayed in his car instead of trying to play hero, in my opinion.

If it turns out that the neighborhood watch guy blatantly disregarded the dispatch officer and then ended up getting in a fight with the kid and killing him, then I think think the neighborhood watch guy should be held accountable. Carrying a gun brings on a higher level of responsibility, and it sounds to me like steps could have been taken to avoid killing this kid.

And put yourself in the black kid's shoes. You're walking home at night and you turn around to see some guy in a car following you at slow speed, who then pulls up and confronts you. What would you do? I would sure as heck be pretty defensive and on edge. Especially if the guy, who wasn't an officer, gets out of his car and starts coming towards me??

Bottom line is this: If it turns out that that the neighborhood watch guy was trying to stop a felony of some kind, got attacked, and fired in self defense, then I think it's a good shoot. But if he just tried to play hero cop and detain the kid (not doing anything majorly wrong) after dispatch told him not to, and then a fight started so he shot the kid, then I think he was definitely in the wrong and the parents have cause to be outraged.

Really, we just need more details to debate it much further.

[gravedancer]

I dont really have a problem with the guy ignoring the dispatchs suggestion (and thats all it could be is a suggestion, the police even said it wasnt compulsory), provided he had valid cause to stop the kid (like he thought a felony was being commited). We just dont know yet if that was the case.

[G1785]

The biggest parts that bother me so far is that the guy took things in his own hands and that the family of the kid seem to portray him as a victim because he's black I just always hate when people blame a race for the basis of something when there is no evidence of it. Hopefully 911 tapes are released soon and we can find out what really happined

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[YoZUpZ]

What most media sources aren't telling you is that this man called the police because this kid was acting suspicious... When the police responded, the shooter had a pretty severe and bloody injury to the back of his head (straight from the Chief's mouth)... But of course, the media leaves that out, and they replace that with interviews with the parents talking about how great of a kid he was, and how the system is broken, and out to the the blacks.

I agree with you that the media will definitely try to spin a "poor victim innocent teen gunned down in cold blood" story, and I'm sure the "victim" isn't quite as innocent as they make him seem. What bothers me though is this: The police were on the way, and dispatch told the neighborhood watch guy to stand down and let the police handle it. At this point, unless this kid was in the commission of a felony, or threatening the lives of the neighborhood watch captain or others (pretty hard to do with out a weapon), the neighborhood watch captain should have stayed in his car instead of trying to play hero, in my opinion.

If it turns out that the neighborhood watch guy blatantly disregarded the dispatch officer and then ended up getting in a fight with the kid and killing him, then I think think the neighborhood watch guy should be held accountable. Carrying a gun brings on a higher level of responsibility, and it sounds to me like steps could have been taken to avoid killing this kid.

And put yourself in the black kid's shoes. You're walking home at night and you turn around to see some guy in a car following you at slow speed, who then pulls up and confronts you. What would you do? I would sure as heck be pretty defensive and on edge. Especially if the guy, who wasn't an officer, gets out of his car and starts coming towards me??

Bottom line is this: If it turns out that that the neighborhood watch guy was trying to stop a felony of some kind, got attacked, and fired in self defense, then I think it's a good shoot. But if he just tried to play hero cop and detain the kid (not doing anything majorly wrong) after dispatch told him not to, and then a fight started so he shot the kid, then I think he was definitely in the wrong and the parents have cause to be outraged.

Really, we just need more details to debate it much further.

Those are good points, and I agree with you on the confronting part. Was the neighborhood watch guy in his car at first? or was he on foot? I can't remember. I agree that we need more details. If the guy was following the kid in the car, got out and confronted him and brandished the handgun, then putting myself in the kid's shoes, I would probably try bashing him over the head as well (if I wasn't doing anything bad).

As for following the dispatcher's advice... Well, after listening to the local shooting with the dispatcher saying "put the gun down" than a couple seconds asking "is there anyone else in the house?" I don't give 2 hoots what the dispatcher says I should do. If there is someone breaking into my house, I'm not putting my gun down until the cops show up... and then, I would be putting it into a holster (on my body) unless the cops demand otherwise. You never know if someone you just shot has friends standing outside, in the getaway car, or somewhere else in the house.

[DiscoLives4ever]

I can easily see this as a clash of two cultures:

Neighborhood Watch (NW) sees a teenager dressed in "ghetto clothing" (as far as NW has seen from the media) and appears to be casing the neighborhood, maybe looking for a house to break into, maybe something else, who knows? Decides it's ok to go start talking to him and comes across more abrasive than he intends or realizes. The kid - having a chip on his shoulder from growing up with at least a few prominent people in his life using race as a crutch - decides to act belligerently and starts chest-thumping since that's how people get others to back down where he grew up. NW takes this as a much more legitimate threat then it actually is (after all he's from an entirely different cultural background) and starts to take a threatening stance as well ready to defend himself. Maybe some pushing/shoving and even a few thrown punches occur. The kid - in a show of bravado lost on NW - threatens to "bust a cap" or some such and reaches into a pocket where the bugle from a bag of candy looks plausibly similar to a gun. NW takes action to neutralize this threat to his life.

Of course this is nothing more than a "what-if" conjured up completely from limited facts. I could just as easily come up with an equally-plausible scenario in which NW is a blood-thirsty klansman, or the kid is walking thug stereotype. Or where a vicious pack of Dromaeosaurids that have escaped from Isla Sorna are cleverly trying to cause increased racial tension to cover their blatant hate-crimes against Samuel L. Jackson. There's just not enough info.

[Cheyenne20]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/article;jsess ... 26758&f=19

I found an updated article. It references the 911 tapes that hard been released. It is interesting. It reads that they heard the boy plead with the shooter... I wonder if the recording has reached the internet yet.

Sent from my EVO 3D, using Tapatalk...